Wellington creatives and arts supporters were given the chance to put their thoughts and concerns directly to the top in the capital on Wednesday (11 September), with Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith fronting a Q&A hosted by Toi o Taraika Arts Wellington.

The audience at the Michael Fowler Centre spent 45 minutes getting  to hear from the Minister, who shared his take on the sector and where it needs to go before the floor was opened up - with the Government's policy around arts in schools and the impact of creativity in social reform high on the agenda of attendees.

Goldsmith started his address by labelling the creative sector as "One of the greatest sectors of society", adding the arts "Make life so much more enjoyable and richer - we’re very keen for New Zealand to continue to be very strong and successful in this space."

He referenced the Creative Sector strategy that he first touted back in April, stating there’s a draft which will be coming out soon and will be seeking the thoughts of the creative community.  

He outlined “Many of the great artists across this country over many years have toiled away and come up with their own things. They haven’t been guided by any Government strategy - they’ve been creative in their own sense. 

"But we do recognise that the Government does have the power to make things easy or difficult and has a huge investment in the sector."

Goldsmith underlined a desire to grow NZ’s cultural capital - both internationally and domestically.

"We want to grow our exports as a way to make a living - whether it’s in film or music or architecture (or) many other things we do as a country. We want to see NZ as well known for its creative sector as it for its lamb chops and milk - in certain circles, we are already, and I think there’s a real opportunity to push further."

Pipeline of talent

Goldsmith then set about explaining the three areas the Government sees as the ways to take the arts forward, starting with "the pipeline of talent".

He details "Obviously that starts in the schools - we want to ensure that all Kiwi kids growing up are exposed to a wide variety of the arts, whether it’s kapa haka, playing the trombone in the school band, Shakespeare."

The Minister also front-footed the angst within the creative community, with many feeling the arts are being treated as a 'nice to have' as the Government drives focus on core subjects. 

"I perish to think that some journalists can be mischievous," Goldsmith began. "You’ve got to be able to do the basics to be able to do anything - you’ve got to be able to count, you’ve got to be able to read. So yes, we’re focused on that and it’s critical that the education system is focussed on that, ensuring all kids have that foundation upon which to build. But it’s not incomparible with continuing to ensure they’re exposed to the arts." 

This was contested in Q&A portion of the afternoon. One member of the audience called for Goldmsith to “not blame the media for looking into policies that are causing distress to a vast number of people in this country”, highlighting that NZ "can’t wait until literacy and numeracy is at 99%" before focussing on creative pathways for the youth of Aotearoa.

After initially addressing the “National shame” of child school attendance, Goldsmith acknowledged “people will be worried about the (closure of) Creatives in Schools programme." Goldsmith stated that his officials has advised him the programme was part of the COVID funding which "was not economically sustainable.” Dr Kerryn Palmer - an outspoken critic of the lack of creativity in New Zealand schools in recent times was also in attendance and retorted that the programme started in 2019, prior to the COVID funding, before expressing frustration at CiS being cut without consultation with the creative sector.

Goldsmith replied "The reality is we have to question all these things, I’m regularly having conversations with the Minister of Education and we are determined to ensure there is a strong element of creativity and creative input into the education system." 

When asked by Palmer if artists and educators will be talked to when implementing the Creative Sector strategy, the minister responded “We’re having a conversation now, and yes we will be continuing that conversation, that’s what we are doing."

Leveraging investment

Goldsmith's second focus point was around money - how much there is and where it's coming from, detailing it's important "we’re thinking very carefully about the investment that Government makes and we’re leveraging that effectively so we have good outcomes with the resources that we have.

"We invest nearly half a billion dollars in the broader sector - a lot of it is subsiding films but many investments are made across the sector. The reality is in this year's budget and next year, there’s not huge amounts of fresh money available - there will be hopefully down the line once we get the budget back in order. 

"Over the last six years, (NZ) borrowed an extra $100 billion dollars and we’ve got not much to show for it but a lot of debt to pay down, we’ve got a big deficit, we’ve got massive challenges fiscally. We, in the current budget, managed to hold our ground reasonably well against a strong tide but we’re not in a period where we have large amounts of money floating around. 

"So we need to think very carefully about how we use the resource that we’ve currently got. I think we need to be purposeful, that when it’s Government money being invested, it is purposely leveraging philanthropy, local government investment, corporate investment and of course engagement with audiences as they pay. 

"That’s a mindset that’s going to be very important in all the funding that we do.

"Certainly, when we’re doing trade missions around the world, we’re selling milk, we’re selling meat, we’re also selling our film industry, we’re selling our ideas, our creative sector. I think we need to make that part of our export story and really talk that up."

Questioned from the floor on how the Government is investing in the arts, Goldsmith argued that there a whole host of funding streams, regularly pointing to the $48 million the Budget pumped into kapa haka - "It’s an opportunity for hundreds of thousands of NZers to engage in art form that is unique and special to NZ".

He continued "The Creative NZ funding available for various things has not increased greatly over a period of time, some Government investment goes direct to certain outfits like Symphony Orchestra, Opera and Matatini. Then there’s some funding that comes through the pokies, the gambling levy that’s filtered through but there’s also direct Government spending." 

As for the broader eco-system, Goldsmith stated "There’s large amounts of funding for NZ on Air which is fundamentally about telling our stories to our nation, and the broader film sense as well. So there’s a mix of government spending and also there’s a huge amount of spending at a local government level which is under a huge amount of pressure. 

"Part of the strategy is to make sure central and local government are working together well and also thinking about how they can connect to the other players in society to make those contributions - it’s always a mix."

Regulations - help of hinderance?

Goldsmith's third point was the need to consider the regulatory environment, "whether it’s a help or a hinderance and what we can do to make it more of a helpful thing."

The Minister elaborates "We do need to recognise that many of the people engaged across the sector are also just small business people trying to make a living…they do have to battle against all sorts of regulations that can make things difficult so as a government, we’re very focused on trying to reduce that as best we can. 

"I always remember a chap making the point ‘I run music concerts, the most useful thing you can do for me is make it not so flaming hard to get a liquor licence because people like having a beer while they’re listening to music’ - so it’s practical stuff that makes a difference. 

"If you’re trying to get audiences into a place like this on a Saturday night, there are two things that are highly significant - one is can people actually get there? Does the council make it too difficult to actually get there? And secondly, do they feel safe at night, walking around? Those mundane things around doing things effectively, creating a safe environment in CBDs - all those things are very important in the context of the arts."

Creative income - or lack thereof

Goldsmith pointed out to the audience "For ten years, I was in your shoes as a full-time writer. You toil away, do your best and sometimes you feel like you’re out there on your own - be assured, whether you’re the visual artists, the actors or the musicians, you are enormously valued, not just across the Government but right across parliament and I think across the broader community."

Among the discussion points was what can be done to address the stark reality of NZ's creative professionals' median income sitting around $37,000, compared to the median of $61,800 for salary and wage earners.

Goldsmith answered "Trying to close that gap between the average earnings of people in the creative sector and the rest of the community definitely is one of the key objectives of the strategy. A lot of people, of course - the reality of life - have jobs and engage in the creative sector on the weekends and in their spare time. That has an impact on overall earnings.

"But it’s a tough business, no question about that. So how do you grow incomes? Well, that’s not a narrow question in terms of the arts, it’s a much broader question as an entire country. 

"There are lots of questions that we face as a country - how do we grow an economy and get prosperous so that people have more money to spend on things that are, ultimately, discretionary? To go to a concert is ultimately a choice that people have and when you’re in a tough economic environment, fewer people get to do that.

 "We’ve got to make all those tough choices. I’m not going to promise Nirvana, that you’re going to be rolling in loot in two year’s time but part of the strategy is how can we build that pipeline of talent and have sustainable careers? There are some things we can do that will help along that way but the ultimate answer is having a much stronger economy."

Goldsmith added "There continues to be a real thrist for local stories and local interpretation of the world that we live in. The audience is there but there’s always a challenge in going out to find them. My one observation of the arts generally in NZ is that there’s no question that we put a lot of genius and creativity into developing the product - and the product is amazing - but we also got to recognise that equally important is proving an equal amount of genius and creativity in figuring out how to persuade people to buy the product, to come and see the product."

More than just dollar value

The long held debate of commercial viability versus social good was always raised.

When asked what he sees as the value of arts in the community, Goldsmith replied “Growing engagement of NZers with the arts is a core goal that we’re focused on. There is an economic side, absolutely, but it’s by no means the be-all and end-all, it’s not all about that at all." 

He then went on to raise "the therapeutic power of the arts", offering "There is enormous amounts of money spent on behalf of all NZers in the prison systems for which I’m responsible for (as the Minister of Justice), the addiction space, the mental health space…and arts providers are delivering programmes that are much more effective than some of the alternatives.

Goldsmith clarified “I think more of it (the money invested in said spaces) should be going to the arts than some of the alternatives and that’s very much what I’m advocating with my colleagues and those sectors. Yes, I think there’s enormous opportunity there to make the case and build the case for the power of the arts, not just in the education phase, but reflecting and recognising that life in modern cities is stressful and difficult - the power of the creative sector in general to help people get through the difficulties of life Is immense.

"We are prepared to make investments in solving the problems rather than just funding the problems, social issues or challenges we have.

"If you took for example, rehabilitation programmes in prisons and the extent in which art does an effective job in reducing recidivism, then absolutely, we’re up for the that discussion. It can’t just be on the case of hopes and aspirations, goodwill and good-hearted people, it does need to have some kind of rigour to it. The opportunity is absolutely there and you’re pushing on an open door if you can demonstrate real progress in those areas."