Tobias Berger has recently taken over the Director's role at Artspace in Auckland. Tobias Berger has recently taken over the Director's role at Artspace in Auckland.For the past 5 years he has been curator at the Kunsthalle at the Museum Fridericianum, Kassel, one of the largest and most important contemporary art spaces in Germany and home to prestigious international art event, Documenta. He worked on the Kwangju Biennale in Korea and most recently curated the 8th Baltic Triennial of International Art in Lithuania, the biggest contemporary art exhibition in Eastern Europe. This show, titled
Centre of Attraction , included two New Zealand artists, Peter Robinson and Yuk King Tan.

On arriving in Auckland Tobias hit the floor running. On the day this interview was conducted he was recovering from three weeks of intensive work pulling together the first Artspace show for 2003, Money for Nothing. Over 200 people came to the opening and two days later Tobias is gathering himself again after all the fuss.

Ed: What does getting the Artspace position mean to you?

TB: It means taking over a great institution and gaining another perspective. Seeing the world from the other side. In Europe we consider ourselves first, then perhaps America, then Asia and then Australia. Here it is the other way around - so the inverse happens. I think also that being foreign gives me an outsider's perspective on the art scene in New Zealand. I was always quite interested in politics. The way New Zealand deals with issues like the bi-culturalism and integrations seems very interesting.

And after living for a year in Lithuania it is wonderful to spend some time here.

Ed: So what do you think makes a good curator?

TB: I'm not sure about that. When I think of some of the top European curators, Harold Szeemann, Rene Block, Cathrine David, etc, I see them as very individual and unique operators. They all have a very different view on art, art practice and the way works get exhibited and dealt with. I don't think of there to be anything particular that makes a good curator as such. It's good that there is no such uniform way.

I had some further curatorial training at the
De Appel Centre of Contemporary Art in Amsterdam . I spent eight months there. Basically the training provides you with a very good look at contemporary art. We traveled a lot - we went to Germany, Istanbul, London and Venice. They also provide you with an incredible amount of people and networks. At the end of the programme you create an exhibition with the other curators, which forces you into learning some group skills. Sometimes it is said that these Curatorial Programmes make the job more homogenous, but I think a closer inspection proves the opposite.

Ed: How would you describe your curatorial approach? Are you theory driven, artist driven, or aesthetics driven?

TB: I'm definitely artist driven. I make shows that create space for artists. That is my priority. At University I majored in Art History and Economics. So I may have a little wider view on art. I'm also hoping to use media and extend genres through working with other mediums such as fashion, architecture, graphic art and digital media. There is a lot of stuff (in the Money For Nothing show) that did not originate as artworks but have become that through this particular contextualization. We will be looking to use our creative freedom to keep extending contemporary art practice.

It is good to create a dialogue or even juxtapositions. In the Vilnius Triennial I had almost only big rooms and I did not put any extra dividing wall in any room. I wanted to get away from these big art shows which look like Art Fairs, one both beside the other. In Vilnius I even showed eight different Videos in one room with sound turned up. If people felt they wanted to concentrate more on a work they just picked up the headphones. It was a real different experience from all the normal blackbox presentations. There was a great dialogue between the works.

Ed: What is your vision for Artspace?

TB: I see Artspace as an institution. Our commitment must be to establish ourselves further both locally and internationally as a leading proponent of contemporary art in this region. We are not an artist's run space and though we never have been it is important that we have a responsive approach to the local arts community and our membership. We have plans to create a new space called a Pop-In Room where we can have smaller project-based exhibitions or give artists who come to New Zealand for whatever reason the chance to put up a small presentation. This will mean some refurbishing of the gallery to create this new space next to the current office space. This will allow us to reconnect with our audience - who we can only see at the moment on our monitors.

Also we will open for debate about the future of Artspace in which anyone can bring themselves in. I want to hear the ideas, worries, and the voices from the interested audience. Why not questioning things like the solo exhibition in general or opening hours or our communicating. In the end it will be me or the board that will decide what happens in Artspace. We will not give up our most valuable good, our independence. Listening to our audience does not limit our independence actually the opposite happens so that communication will only reinforce it.

Artspace has to position itself anew. Now that Robert Leonard is working as a curator at the Auckland Art Gallery it takes a little pressure off Artspace to singularly fulfill the contemporary edge niche. I feel confident that some compatibility in our programmes will emerge also so there might even be a joint project. Artspace will change as it always has changed with new times, new directors and new circumstances.

In Germany we have an arts organization model called a Kunstverein which basically means an art society. It is a member-based institution which employs a curator to run a programme for a specific time. These organizations are much more funded by it's members and not so reliant on government funding. It gives them more autonomy that way. These societies exist in almost every city and are the main spaces for contemporary art. May be people in other cities in New Zealand should think about the founding of a Kunstverein.

Do you see anything particular that defines New Zealand art in a global context?

I don't think there is anything anymore like New Zealand art. If I go and look at the Sculpture Department at Elam for instance I don't think that it looks any different to any art school anywhere in the world. There is a kind of conceptual humor which is very particular but also very hard to define. There is of course the bicultural element in New Zealand art that you can see in someone like Peter Robinson's work. When I look around Auckland I see a very multicultural city. It is probably more multicultural than any city in Europe and is perhaps on a par with LA or London. I don't think that this is really a bi-cultural environment anymore it is much more complex.

Who is your favourite New Zealand artist? Certainly Yuk King Tan, my partner.

So how is the programme looking?
It was great to start with a show that I could curate myself Money for Nothing . Even though it was put together in only two weeks it shows quite well the kind of art and artist I like and the way I would like to compose the programme.

The next two exhibitions, Nicolas Jasmin and Daniel Malone were planned by the former directors. I certainly will realize them and am happy to have some time to rethink the future programme. The idea of "Foreign Agents", Hannah and Robert's main topic for this year, is more or less dead. It just does not make sense to have a foreign director talk about these issues. I guess I am not "Loyal" enough.

After the two solo projects there will be the Young Artist show, may be our most important yearly exhibition. I am looking forward to curate this.

Hopefully we will have a lot happening beside our normal exhibitions. The Pop Inn room will automatically bring some more events. But there will also be artist talks, discussions and presentations. For these events we can invite people only via email, so if people are not on our email list please send a short note to artspace@artspace.org.nz

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Berger's close association with New Zealand art began in 1999, when he worked on Toi Toi Toi: Three Generations of artists from New Zealand, an exhibition shown at the Museum Fridericianum in Kassel, and subsequently at Auckland Art Gallery. Since that time Berger has had regular contact with New Zealand. In 2000, he curated handiKraft, a show of contemporary German installation art for Artspace and travelled to New Plymouth to present the Fluxus exhibition at the Govett-Brewster Art Gallery.